A conversation between a young man from New Haven who organized a Black Lives Matter protest and a group of older men and women, longtime town residents, some wearing Make America Great Again (MAGA) hats and who were camped out on the other side of the East Haven Green behind a row of small American flags they had planted in front of their lounge chairs, was one of several unlikely outcomes of protest on June 20.

Even more unlikely, at least according to the Black Lives Matter protest organizer, who gave his name Los Fidel, was that, for all their differences, they did find some areas of agreement.

The group of about five men, some of them wearing the MAGA hats, and women from East Haven staked out their seats before 2 p.m., when the protest was scheduled to start on the green. The Town Green was mostly deserted on the sunny, hot first official day of summer, but for a few people walking their dogs, one young man riding his bike, and a variety of monuments to wars past and the heroes who went to their deaths defending the country.

The group from East Haven said they were there to observe the protest, and that they expected it to be peaceful. They said they supported the protesters' right to protest, but that they were also worried about looting and rioting and "the taking down of statues."

Several in the group declined to give their names, but one woman said she was known as the East Haven Watchdog around town, and that she had a couple of questions for the protesters.

"What are they looking for in an outcome?" she asked. "What are they doing to promote better interaction between people?"

Pete Cianelli, 71, a lifelong resident of East Haven, said he was speaking for the others in the group when he said he was concerned with the direction of the country.

"I am concerned for my grandchildren's future," he said. "This is not the America I grew up in."

He said he was specifically concerned about discussions of defunding the police.

"This defunding craziness has to be stopped," he said.

One of the women in the group said that the specifics in each town had to be taken into account, for a wide variety of matters, including police departments. She said even along the shoreline, "towns right next to each other are like a different country."

'I Love America'

Fidel arrived shortly after 2 p.m. with Luis Alamo of New Haven, who also helped organize the protest, to find a small group of about seven protesters, most of them from out of town, gathered in the green.

When Fidel got to the green, exhausted and hoarse from not sleeping in more than a day and taking part in a days-long campout protest in Bridgeport, he looked at the other group in the MAGA hats, a trademark of President Donald Trump's campaign, who were looking at the small group of protesters.

"We got MAGA hat people here," he said, gesturing over toward them. "They don't want us here. They brought these American flags out here to protest us. They think I'm anti-American. I'm not anti-American. I love America. I love America so much I'm out here fighting for a better America. We can leave things the way they are, but it's not fair to people of color and our children.

"I'm 30 years old. I'm a felon. My life is pretty much set in stone. I've accepted I'm a janitor. I'm lucky enough to be a janitor...And I have custody of my daughter. I've been raising her for five years. That is where my heart is. I've accepted my life," he continued. "But I'm fighting so that she does not have to fight. I'm fighting because I have a cousin who has a black son and I don't want him to have to fight. We're not asking for superiority, only equality."

The group, with people walking up one by one, and two by two, carrying their own signs, eventually grew to about 16 people from Westport, Branford, North Haven, and other towns, including two young people who had recently moved to East Haven.

Michael Simons, 19, from Westport, one of several white people who were there, said "We need to get involved in local politics and vote in local elections," he said. "We need zoning reform. We need to figure out, what kind of community do we want to be? And what we need to do to see change?"

Fidel told the group about his background, how he first encountered racism in high school in West Haven and specifics about his arrest and incarceration. He talked at length about what saw as inequities in the criminal justice system, about racism and its effect on society, and other topics. The group also talked about what they wanted from the protests, including criminal justice reform, policing reform, and a society that does not treat poor people like criminals.

Fidel said the Bridgeport protest was a great experience, mostly because he hopes it will lead the city to reallocate some funding away from the police department and back into neighborhoods. And he said the diversity of the crowd was inspiring.

"White people, black people, brown people, straight people, gay people, trans people," he said. "It was a great learning experience not only for Black Lives Matter, but we also learned more about trans people and their fight. I learned why I should include he, hers, they pronouns even though I am a straight male. It's to be inclusive. We just learned about treating people with more humanity, more compassion, showing empathy, and even sympathy is OK."

'Kisses for Everybody'

After several hours, Fidel saw the people wearing the MAGA hats packing up their chairs, and pulling up their flags, and preparing to leave. Taking Alamo and Alamo's cell phone video camera with him, but asking the rest of the group to stay back so as not to appear intimidating, he went over to talk with them.

He walked up, said, "My name is Los," and stuck his hand out.

They gave their names and there was a round of hearty handshakes and "pleasure to meet you"s.

Fidel, his hands on his hips, started by saying, "What we're doing today, first of all I love our country...I love our country so much that I'm willing to come out here and fight for it."

As he spoke about equality, one of the women with the East Haven group came up between the two men talking with Fidel, held out her hand, and offered him an individually wrapped piece of chocolate. Fidel took it and said, "Oh, God bless you. Thank you. I appreciate you very much."

"Kisses for everybody," she said.

Fidel turned around, gave a big grin to Alamo, and waved his hand for him to take one. Alamo stepped up and did. Fidel then continued the discussion, and talked about a criminal justice system that was not being used justly and to its full extent. Then he turned the conversation to the men in front of him.

"We would love to see people like you, who care, support us. You guys showed up today and you care about your community. You came out here to see what was going on in your community and I respect that and appreciate that. So I wanted to have a conversation."

The conversation continued and touched upon history, slavery, the criminal justice system, the MAGA hats, and many other topics. There were disagreements, arms crossed across chests, then hands on hips again, interruptions, and, ultimately, all parties taking at least some time to talk, and to listen.

For all their areas of disagreement, they found several areas where they could stand on common ground.

They all expressed their ardent support for the right of people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances, as guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution. Fidel said his intention was disruption, not destruction, and that his protests were intended to be peaceful.

"If you need protection, and you're having a peaceful protest, I will be there protecting you with every weapon there is at my disposal," said one of the men watching the protest.

Fidel and the men from East Haven expressed mutual concern about some police departments acquiring large stockpiles of military equipment.

They had a debate about the concept of defunding police departments, and found a few areas of common ground there, including, they said, that the word "defunding" can sound inflammatory and muddy the debate about whether some financial resources should be diverted from the police department to supportive community services to help the police department tackle the wide array of issues they've been tasked with solving.

And they all expressed their love for America, although they differed significantly on the details and ideas about what exactly made America great.

A First

After the discussion ended and the group from East Haven left, Fidel went back to the protesters and continued their discussion. While dismayed about some of their differences, he said the conversation, for him, was a first.

"That was the first time I was able to have a conversation with MAGA supporters," he said. "They said they would pledge their protection. We can have a dialogue that can benefit us both."

He told the group, "you made me proud today."

And the group of protesters gave him a round of applause.

"Your neighbors will see that East Haven will not stand for racism," he said, adding again that he hoped to have another peaceful protest in another two weeks.

He had told the group earlier that one reason why he called the protest for Saturday is that he was mad that during the last protest in East Haven, the weekend before, someone in a truck swerved and hit him, injuring his forearm, when he and the group were chanting "Black Lives Matter."

Fidel, whose given name is Carlos Burgos, filed a complaint under that name with the police about the incident. The East Haven Police Department said it is has obtained video of the incident and is conducting an investigation.

The conversation continued for a bit more and then people started to drift away. Fidel and Alamo headed to the Walgreen's across the street from the Town Green, as Fidel continued to mull over his conversation with the East Haveners.

"I've shut down highways. I slept on the street. I've never had a conversation with a MAGA supporter. Those MAGA supporters say we appreciate you doing it peacefully. Next time maybe they will help protect us. Imagine us, walking with MAGA supporters. Maybe they will join us next time."

The East Haven Police Department said it did not receive any calls or complaints about the protest on June 20.

"We did however learn that there was positive dialogue between protesters and a group of East Haven residents who were sitting on the green. This is encouraging and proves that when you put two people face to face, constructive conversation is possible," said East Haven Police Department Lieutenant Joseph M. Murgo.